Articles

Creationism and Dinosaurs

By D. Jones

Edited by A. C. LaMonica

The following is an article used by Creationists to explain the undeniable existence of dinosaurs and the relationship with Noah's Ark.

*Please note that the original article and Derek's response to each section is noted respectively. Be sure to share your thoughts in our FORUM!

Author:Curt Sewell

Subject:Creation Overviews

Date:11/8/1999

Curt Sewell is the author of God at Ground Zero- (website- http://www.ncal.verio.com/~hbriley/bsg/sewell.htm)

[CURT SEWELL] We hear a lot about dinosaurs, but most of it is from the evolutionist position. What do creationists believe about dinosaurs? When did they live? Why did they become extinct? Were there dinosaurs on the Ark with Noah? Are dinosaurs mentioned in the Bible? Did birds evolve from dinosaurs? Let's see what we can learn.

First, the word "dinosaur" is not in the Bible because that word wasn't invented until the mid-1800's. That word means "terrible lizards." However, the Bible mentions "Leviathan" and "Behemoth," which were probably dinosaurs. Job 40 and 41 describes these, and they don't sound like any modern creatures, even though some believe they might be crocodiles or hippopotamuses (but then the descriptions don't fit).

The taxonomy of all true dinosaurs is as follows: Phylum Chordata, Sub-Phylum Vertebrata, Superclass Tetrapoda, Class Reptilia, Subclass Diapsida. This subclass includes Order Saurischia (lizard-hipped) and Order Ornithischia (bird-hipped) dinosaurs. There are many families and species within these two orders. We'll only mention a few.

Order Saurischia includes Sauropods (the huge plant-eating "gentle giants" such as Apatasaurus and Diplodocus, shown at right) and Therapods (carnivorous .giants such as the Tyrannosaurus Rex, Velociraptor, and Struthiomimus, shown at left). These Saurischia types all were lizard-hipped, that is, their pelvis contained three bones pointing in three different directions.

Order Ornithischia had four suborders -- the Ornithopods (including the crested Hadrosaurs and Spoonbills), Ceratops, Stegosaurs, and Ankylosaurs. These were all huge plant-eaters. All of the Ornithischias were bird-hipped, that is, their pelvis had three bones, two of which pointed backward, similar to modern birds.

[DEREK's RESPONSE] The first correct thing said in this essay is about the word “Dinosaur”. It was first named by the English Paleontologist, Richard Owen.

Leviathan is actually the Hebrew word for “Whale” or “Large Sea Creature.” The Leviathan is mentioned only six times in the Bible (Isaiah 27:1,Psalms 74:14,Psalms 104: 25-26,Job 3:8,Job 41: 1-41.)As you will note, the description sounds a lot like a Sea Creature/Dragon mix. No known dinosaur had the capabilities to breathe fire or create smoke as described in the bible.

The word behemoth means “large and powerful land animal” and based on the description in the book of Job, chapter 15 reads, “Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee, he eateth grass as an ox.”

Clearly, the two words Leviathan and Behemoth represent two different creatures, one of the ocean and one of the land.

When the author of this essay says Leviathan and Behemoth were “probably” dinosaurs he is making an assumption to fit his belief system. In fact, many scholars believe that the two creatures represented the mythological Canaanite creature Litan, Liwyatan, or Yam. The behemoth could also be representative of the Canaanite monster Atik also described as a mythological bull Calf or calf of El. The Canaanites were the ancient inhabitants of what is now known as Israel. (ref. website- http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa102197a.htm) For more about Canaanite mythology check out (website- http://home.comcast.net/~chris.s/canaanite-faq.html)

So what does this all really mean?

-Christian View- The earth is only 6000 years old and therefore humans and dinosaurs literally lived together at the same time. The description of the animals (Behemoth and Leviathan) in the Bible indicates this. So why were only two kinds mentioned in the bible when any paleontologist will tell you that currently over 1,900 different kinds of dinosaur species have been identified.

(website- http://www.newscientist.com/channel/life/dinosaurs/dn9927-faq-dinosaurs-.html;jsessionid=CLCEFLHJMKIF#faq3)

If you can imagine for a moment that the ancient Jews literally meant that dinosaurs were present at the same time as humans, then why are only two descriptions given of them in the Bible?

- The first, a dinosaur that breaths fire, has a heart made of stone, makes the sea boil and smoke comes out of his nostrils. (Job 41:1-34)

- The second, a plant eating land dinosaur that only eats grass, has bones that are like bronze and iron and he can drink the river Jordan. (Job 40:15-24)

[CURT SEWELL] When did the dinosaurs live? Evolutionists say their domain ranged from some 200 million years ago until their extinction 65 million years ago. But this is circular reasoning, based on the assumption of evolution, and there are many good reasons to doubt it. The Bible says that all the sea-creatures were created on the 5th day of creation week, and land animals were created on the 6th, just before humans. Leviathan (Job 41) was probably a sea-monster, while Behemoth (Job 40) represents the dinosaurs that lived on land. They were both living at the same time as humans.

[DEREK's RESPONSE] - With the fossil record that we have, we know that there are thousands of different dinosaur species. From carnivores (meat-eating) like the T-Rex to herbivores (plant-eating) like the Diplodocus. This would mean that not only would Noah have had over 1,900 different species of dinosaurs on the ark but he would have had to deal with fire-breathing ones as well. When author Curt Sewell states, “They were both living at the same time as humans”, he is making an inaccurate statement. First, if that statement was true then how come not one single culture on Earth mentions dinosaurs? You would think that the ancient Egyptians or Greeks would have mentioned them once. Secondly, what happened to them all? If Noah brought all the dinosaurs onto the ark, and they all lived long enough after the Bible to be mentioned, then where are they?

- When he mentions that this is based on the assumption of evolution, he is forgetting radio carbon dating. Most dinosaur fossils correlate to around 65 million years ago while the oldest human fossils we have are about 160,000 years old. Both do not correlate with what the Bible states as the age of the Earth. (website- http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1295624)

[CURT SEWELL] The description of the Great Flood of Noah is found in Genesis 6:9 - 8:19, and is also referred to in many other spots in the Bible. Genesis 6:20 says that God caused pairs of all the kinds of air-breathing animals to come to Noah, for loading onto the Ark. Noah didn't have to go searching and capturing them. All he did was to gather food and take care of them, after building the Ark according to God's directions. Until the 19th century, that Ark was the largest boat ever built -- designed for stability, not for speed. Thus dinosaurs were certainly on the Ark with Noah and his family. They were probably juveniles, not the huge full-grown monsters whose fossilized bones are usually found today. It's likely that God also caused most of the larger creatures on the Ark to go into a state something like hibernation, so there wouldn't be a lot of activity and confusion. And at that time all humans and animals were herbivorous (plant-eaters), and co-existed peacefully, until after the Flood. In Genesis 9:1-7 God authorized people to begin eating meat, and said that animals would begin to fear them. This was just before God issued his rainbow covenant, saying that never again would He send an earth-destroying flood. We should notice that, if that Flood were just local, God's promise has been broken many times, since we've had many bad floods -- but none that changed the entire earth surface. That Great Flood must have been world-wide.

[DEREK's RESPONSE] - The first inaccurate statement he makes in the next paragraph is “until the 19th century, the ark was the largest boat ever built—designed for stability, not for speed.” Curt Sewell is under the assumption that the ark actually existed. To this date, not one single piece of evidence has been found for this supposed largest boat ever created.

- The next statement he makes is that “dinosaurs were certainly on the ark”. This is another statement that really hurts Mr. Sewell. If you can imagine the amount of species that are currently present on the earth today, (website- http://www.newscientist.com/channel/life/endangered-species/mg13117862.300) an estimated 50 billion that would require a boat of almost massive proportions to not only carry every single animal on earth but hold the massive dinosaurs. He also does not take into account the fact that 99% of the species on the earth today are extinct.

- He further hurts his argument by stating that “God must have caused the larger creatures on the ark to go into some sort of hibernation.” This again is a rationalization to fit his personal beliefs. The Bible makes absolutely no mention of hibernation for the animals.

- He then makes another inaccurate statement, claiming that at the time, humans and animals were herbivorous, meaning that they did not eat meat of any kind. This statement is also untrue because scientists have found bone fragments inside the stomach outlines of carnivorous dinosaurs. Mr. Sewell himself mentions that therapods were carnivorous and even gives examples (i.e. T-Rex, Velociraptor)

- No evidence of a world-wide flood has ever been found.

[CURT SEWELL] It's possible that an asteroid impact played a part in all of this. The Bible says the "fountains of the deep were broken open," and that most of the water came from that. A large impact could have broken the crust enough to start a chain of volcanoes. That Flood drastically changed the climate and ecology of the world. Even though dinosaurs were on the Ark, and some partially reestablished themselves, it seems certain that most of the dinosaurs couldn't flourish in the post-Flood atmosphere, especially during the ice age that probably followed, a few centuries later. Thus most dinosaurs drowned in the Flood, many being swept into "dinosaur graveyards," found today. Those that survived the Flood couldn't survive the colder, drier climate later. This is what caused their extinction.

[DEREK's RESPONSE] - The next paragraph is where Mr. Sewell really gets confusing. He first begins to say that it’s possible that an asteroid played a part in the flood, claiming that somehow volcanoes had something to do with the flood or the condition of the world after. He then claims that a flood drastically changed the climate of the Earth, even to go as far as saying an Ice Age occurred after the flood. This subsequent “ice age” led to the deaths of the dinosaurs because they couldn’t flourish in the “post-Flood atmosphere.” This is highly illogical considering if God caused a world-wide flood in order to cleanse the Earth, why wouldn't he make the environment livable for the creatures Noah saved? What was the point of saving them in the first place? Why does the Bible not make any mention of an ice age?

[CURT SEWELL] Did birds evolve from dinosaurs? Evolutionists have good imaginations. That's what many of their beliefs are based on, rather than solid evidence. Their "world view," or basic philosophy, is purely materialistic, and all their "scientific" explanations must exclude any reference to intervention by a supernatural power (God). Thus they must seek a materialistic explanation for everything, and evolution is the only process other than direct creation that could account for the variety of life -- so birds must have evolved from something (in their mind). Mammals aren't found in the fossil record until later than birds, and fish don't seem like likely ancestors for birds, so some sort of reptiles seem (to them) to be the logical ancestor. They ignore the fact that all reptiles are cold-blooded (birds are warm-blooded), and the reptilian breathing mechanism is totally different from that of birds. The only problem they publicize is "how did scales evolve into feathers?" And that's really only a minor detail.

[DEREK's RESPONSE] - The next statement Mr. Sewell says is an attack on Evolutionists. He says that they have good imaginations, which is the foundation of their beliefs. Again, he is sadly mistaken. A logical reading of his work shows what kind of imagination he has (hibernation-ice age-flood theory, all animals were herbivores before the flood, etc). Actually, Evolutionists believe that birds evolved from dinosaurs because it has been proven with fossils. (website- http://www.cnn.com/TECH/science/9806/23/feathered.dinosaur/) Although more evidence is needed, this theory has at least some evidence, unlike any of Curt Sewell’s theories.

[CURT SEWELL] Evolutionists make much about the pelvic bone structure of dinosaurs -- some are called lizard-hipped and some are bird-hipped. But when they guess about the ancestor of birds, they choose some of the smaller dinosaurs such as Compsognathus, one of the Caelurosaurs, which was chicken-sized and shaped a little like a bird. But these are Therapods, which are lizard-hipped. All of the bird-hipped dinosaurs are huge, cumbersome Stegasaurs, Ankylosaurs, etc. -- creatures more like a hippopotamus than anything bird-like.

Now here's an interesting conjecture. Folklore all over the world has stories of fire-breathing dragons -- the story of King Arthur's Knights of the Round Table is the best-known example. Now I know that we can't prove anything from folklore. But how did those stories first get started? There must have been some real basis. And there is at least one insect today, the Bombardier Beetle, that can spew a fire like jet of hot smoky acid from its tail nozzle. This is a very effective defense mechanism. And the heads of some of the Crested Hadrosaur fossils have strange bony structures with internal channels. No one is sure what their function was; temperature regulation is the most commonly guessed explanation. But could these have been chemical reservoirs? Could the passages that lead down to their mouths have been used as squirters? Could some of the dinosaurs have actually been fire-breathing dragons? Maybe so.

[DEREK's FINAL RESPONSE] - The Bombardier beetle is a common argument used by Creationists but its “fire like” secretions can be and have been explained through the evolutionary process.

- To make the claim that the creatures described in folklore may actually exist is simply ludicrous. Using such mad reasoning, why rule out vampires, werewolves, etc.?